Privacy Question

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sndrdg
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Location: Long Island, NY USA
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:39 am

Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:45 am

I don 't use SpamCop or First Alert. Are the messages I mark/train as Spam, Blacklisting or Deletion - forwarded in any way (the message or header checksum, the actual message or header info - or anything) - to First Alert or anywhere else? Not that I don't want to help the First Alert database or any other Spam database from getting a report - It's just I want to make sure I am not unvoluntarily contributing - without my knowledge. The reason I ask - as you will see in the screenshot below - a message that I marked as Spam and for Deletion is in the recycle bin and is marked as "Reported" - but Reported Where and to Who? If we are unknowningly particpating - can we control it - or opt out ?
screenshot.jpg
screenshot.jpg (12.57 KiB) Viewed 5108 times

Regards,

Doug
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stan_qaz
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Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 8671
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:49 am

Interesting question, I think FirstAlert runs on port 1050 (check that) so you could look to see if there is anything happening on that port directed to FireTrust.
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rusticdog
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Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:08 pm

That reported column I am fairly sure is for FirstAlert only, not SpamCop. If you are a trial user, then FirstAlert is active, I'm not even sure if you can opt out in the 30 day trial.

When you report a message to SpamCop it will include the message header, that is predominantly the information SpamCop uses.
FirstAlert though is only the message body, and any messages reported are first put through the 'anonymisor' which strips out the message header, this happens within MailWasher before the message is transmitted to FirstAlert.
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sndrdg
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Location: Long Island, NY USA
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Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:31 pm

Chris - Thanks for the quick/honest reply - but I'm not sure I like the answer - so I'm going to restate the answer with some commentary (and please do correct me - if I got something wrong). Please don't take this is as personal attack upon you - but I am a little annoyed at FireTrust. (Nick can you hear me).

As a paid / long time user of Mailwasher Pro - one whom has chosen not to voluntarily participate in First Alerts service, that the digital signatures of my spam messages - are being raped and harvested - and sent to First Alert without my express or implied permission - for the betterment of a another commercial product that you resell. Wow.....

I can't help but feel a little violated by FireTrust. This wouldn't stink so bad - if first it was made perfectly clear right up front that they were doing this - and second - that FirstAlert was a free product with only altruistic motives - for the betterment of "spam mankind" - and we all must participate - but hell - First Alert is a commercial venture. Firetrust should not put me to work to identify spam messages - and in return - receive no benefit for the service that I involuntarily contribute to. Wow.....

There is currently no way to opt out - or turn this involuntary harvesting off. Wow...

I think it is time to revisit the firewall rules I granted to Mailwasher.


Regards,


Doug

PS - Just want to make it clear. I am not a MWP Free user - and First Alert is not checked in my mail tools - yet the "report" column reflects "YES" - that the message was reported. I have not personally verified with a sniffer or other tool - that any connection is being made to First Alert. I suppose that is the next step - verify the behavior - and block it if I can.
davews
Travelling Tuatara
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:30 pm

Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:06 pm

In your MW options under Recycle Bin options have you checked the box to allow MW to 'Email me a summary of MW activity'? If so I wonder if this is related to your problem and that it has nothing to do with FirstAlert. I don't have that selected, and all my 'reported' boxes say 'No'.

Dave
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stan_qaz
Omniscient Kiwi
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 8671
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:19 pm

Question, how are you two using the action column? I think that it does several things that using the learning column doesn't. That might include sending stuff to Firetrust's Firstalert.

I'm not a First alert fan by any means, way too many false positives - it alone gets more mail wrong that every other tool I use! It also fouls up my carefully crafted filtering setup by overriding meaningful status indications with the often bogus "Known Spam" status. I've got another bogus Known Spam tonight that is a carefully managed and easy to opt out of news letter from Fry's Electronics, if I hadn't been carefully double checking every message I'd have missed out on a good deal.

On the other hand I don't/wouldn't mind reporting stuff to it if it was possible to do so without having to use it to filter my messages. something like spamcop works now, you can check your mail against the spamcop.net blacklist if you want to or not and report to spamcop or not independently.
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sndrdg
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Location: Long Island, NY USA
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:39 am

Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:24 pm

Thanks Davews - I don't have that option checked either. Hell all my bantering above - may be based on assumptions which are not true. I certainly hope FireTrust wouldn't do something like that. Hell for all I know - maybe it's marked that way in the Recycle Bin - with the intent that it would have been reported - had one been a subsciber to First Alert. So the only way to clear the air - is to verfify the behavior with a sniffer or other tool - I just don't have the time now - so if anyone out there - that sees similar items in their MW Recycle Bin - and it not a First Alert customer - and has the technical know how to run/interpret the tool(s) of their choice - please repsond on list - so we can put this "rumor" to bed.

Regards to All,

Doug
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sndrdg
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Location: Long Island, NY USA
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:39 am

Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:37 pm

Stan_qaz - If a message was determined by me - to be spam - and if presented with an option to mark an message action S or G - I would mark it as S pam. (My assumption an motive for using this action/column was for "Training" purposes - I don't have separate learning columns in my display anymore - I thought that was replaced by the action column). I can't tell you if the message in the screenshot was already marked as Spam or I set it as spam.

Doug
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stan_qaz
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Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 8671
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:56 pm

You should get a choice of learning or action columns, look for a tick box on the learning tool "Use Action column", we aren't on the same version so I can't be sure.

You may need to fiddle the display options to get it to show the proper columns too.
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rusticdog
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:27 pm

Re: Privacy Question

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:10 pm

mmm....if FirstAlert isn't enabled, then certainly no messages should be reported to FirstAlert. I'll have to check it out more but my suspicion is that there is a glitch in the statistics, falsely showing messages as being reported.

We certainly wouldn't intentionally set MW to send reports if the user wasn't using FirstAlert.

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