I do appreciate it. I have had one ATT account set to the IP address of my POP server since my last post. I have MWP set to check mail every 10 mins. It has now been four hours and I have not seen the problem yet in either account. The MWP event log shows no delays either. I'd like to see at least 24 hours of tests before I start getting that warm, fuzzy feeling so I will post back then...or if I see any other indications.
As to programmer time...if you are in the middle of a complete re-write for MWP8, I can understand if it takes a little time for you to get programmer time. Still, I want to thank you all for the efforts you have put into MWP all these years. Its been a very good program. The fact that MWP4 still works (with some tweaking) in Windows 10 is a testament to that hard work! I only replaced MWP4 with MWP7 after the ATT POP servers started hiccuping back in September, and I could not resolve the problem using MWP4.
Thanks!!!!
Server Timeouts
- Denn988
- Student Sheep
Post
Re: Server Timeouts
Just after my 12:28 PM post (above) I got an error on the account that I still used the server name for. The account that I used the IP address for worked fine during the same mail check...no error on that one. They have both erred on the same check about 99.9% of the time prior to this. It may be a good sign. I will wait to see how this goes, but the IP address might be a fix.
- Denn988
- Student Sheep
Post
Re: Server Timeouts
Rustic,
It looks like using the POP server IP address vs the POP server URL is an adequate fix. I provided the IP address or URL in opposition on my Laptop via-a-vs the Desktop (Account 1 is IP on Laptop and URL on Desktop, Account 2 is URL on Laptop and IP on Desktop). The account that uses the URL is the only account that errors on either computer, while the account that uses the IP Address works every time, even when the account that uses the URL errors.
It looks like I have a solution now for this problem, and I thank you.
It looks like using the POP server IP address vs the POP server URL is an adequate fix. I provided the IP address or URL in opposition on my Laptop via-a-vs the Desktop (Account 1 is IP on Laptop and URL on Desktop, Account 2 is URL on Laptop and IP on Desktop). The account that uses the URL is the only account that errors on either computer, while the account that uses the IP Address works every time, even when the account that uses the URL errors.
It looks like I have a solution now for this problem, and I thank you.
-
rusticdog
- Firetrust Monkey
Post
Re: Server Timeouts
Great, glad to hear it. A bit surprised it did seemingly make a difference to be honest...
- Denn988
- Student Sheep
Post
Re: Server Timeouts
You're surprised? It gets worse!
I entered the IP address from that ping (74.6.106.29) into Outlook. Outlook then warned me that 'The server you are connected to is using a security certificate that cannot be verified. The target principle name cannot be verified.
I clicked 'View Certificate', and got the following:
Issued to: legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com
Issued by: Symantec
Valid From: 9/19/2016 to 9/20/2018
I then entered that URL (legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com) as the server name and it (Outlook) works fine.
What is interesting is the fact that the URL for the ATT mail server used to be 'pop.mail.yahoo.com' before ATT changed it to 'inbound.att.net'.
In order to understand the significance of that, you have to understand that Yahoo has provided the ATT e-mail service for ATT users for years. Things became complicated when Verizon took over Yahoo. Yahoo still provides the mail service, but it seems that the server URLs are different. Not only that, but it seems that the ATT DNS service gives you different results at different times when you ping 'inbound.att.net'. When I pinged 'inbound.att.net' this afternoon, I got 74.6.106.29. When I pinged it a few minutes ago, I got 98.138.122.37. However, when I ping 'legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com' I get 74.6.106.29.
For some reason, the ATT DNS server appears to have developed a flutter a few months ago when looking up either 'pop.mail.yahoo.com' or 'inbound.att.net', and that most likely is the cause of the problem that I was having. When you suggested using the IP address, it may have seemed counter-intuitive to me, but you nailed it for me!!!
By the way...still no MWP errors since I changed the server name and IP address!!
I entered the IP address from that ping (74.6.106.29) into Outlook. Outlook then warned me that 'The server you are connected to is using a security certificate that cannot be verified. The target principle name cannot be verified.
I clicked 'View Certificate', and got the following:
Issued to: legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com
Issued by: Symantec
Valid From: 9/19/2016 to 9/20/2018
I then entered that URL (legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com) as the server name and it (Outlook) works fine.
What is interesting is the fact that the URL for the ATT mail server used to be 'pop.mail.yahoo.com' before ATT changed it to 'inbound.att.net'.
In order to understand the significance of that, you have to understand that Yahoo has provided the ATT e-mail service for ATT users for years. Things became complicated when Verizon took over Yahoo. Yahoo still provides the mail service, but it seems that the server URLs are different. Not only that, but it seems that the ATT DNS service gives you different results at different times when you ping 'inbound.att.net'. When I pinged 'inbound.att.net' this afternoon, I got 74.6.106.29. When I pinged it a few minutes ago, I got 98.138.122.37. However, when I ping 'legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com' I get 74.6.106.29.
For some reason, the ATT DNS server appears to have developed a flutter a few months ago when looking up either 'pop.mail.yahoo.com' or 'inbound.att.net', and that most likely is the cause of the problem that I was having. When you suggested using the IP address, it may have seemed counter-intuitive to me, but you nailed it for me!!!
By the way...still no MWP errors since I changed the server name and IP address!!
- Denn988
- Student Sheep
Post
Re: Server Timeouts
Rusticdog,
If Firetrust is going to commit programmer time to this problem, then that programmer should be aware of the whole picture on this problem. I have determined exactly what the problem is, and that problem is with one of several POP Mail servers at Yahoo. It is one of those weird problems (to me anyway) that you run across every so often, and it may affect the way that you want to write your software. Please pass the following on to the programmer.
First, a quick background on the problem:
Several months ago, I began seeing consistent, but intermittent, failures when MailWasher attempts to connect to the POP server for my ATT.net mail accounts. MailWasher would notify me, after a short timeout, that it failed to Login to the POP3 server.
My service provider, ATT U-verse, has a contract with Yahoo to provide mail service for their customers. The POP server that I was using is pop.mail.yahoo.com. I also have my own individual ‘Plus Mail’ account with Yahoo, which has never given me any problems. The POP server for that account is plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com. The problem was only occurring with the ATT accounts, and not with my Yahoo plus account. I checked the troubleshooting pages on the ATT web site, and found that they had a new POP server URL for their accounts. I changed the server name in MWP and Outlook to the new names (inbound.att.net), and found that the problem was unaffected by the change in server names.
I was using MWP 4.1.9 when the problem began, so I (finally) upgraded to MWP 7.11.0 in the hope that the upgrade would help. Unfortunately, the problem continued, even after the upgrade. I then noticed that whatever the problem was, it seemed to also be affecting Outlook 2016. However, Outlook did not fail, it only took longer (intermittently) to download mail from my ATT accounts. I suspected that there might be some kind of POP server problem that was causing a delay in responding.
I cannot find a Server Timeout setting in MWP, but I know where it is in Outlook. For decades, I have set the server Timeout for 2 minutes when I setup Outlook accounts. It just seemed like a nice round number to me. That was longer than the delay that I was seeing in the MWP event Log between the ‘Check Mail’ request and the WMP 'Fail to Login’. I assumed that the problem was that MailWasher was simply related to server timeouts, and nothing more.
That is when I posted the initial message to this topic asking if there was a way to change the server timeout in MailWasher.
Rusticdog, provided me with the method to change the server timeouts in the Setting.xml file in the MailWasher User Data. Unfortunately, after I changed the POP3 server delay from 30 seconds to 120 seconds, there was no difference whatsoever in the errors that I was getting from MailWasher. I should have at least seen a change in the amount of time between the 'Check Mail’ request and the ‘Login Fail’. The changes to the timeout that I entered into the Setting.xml file had no effect on MailWasher.
Rusticdog then asked me to Ping the server and to use the IP address provided by that ping. I did, and I entered the IP address returned by the ping as the incoming POP3 server address for my ATT accounts in MailWasher. This surprised both of us, but it did work. What I have found since then may be important to you.
It turns out that there was only a 20% chance that the IP address returned by PING would cause the failure. This is because there are five different IP addresses associated with the POP server inbound.att.net. Each IP address is assigned to a different server, and all five servers share the load for that POP server address. Ping only returns one resolved IP address at a time for inbound.att.net. If you wait a few minutes and try another ping, you may find that it returns a new IP address. There are five different IP addresses returned (at different times) by ping. It took me a half an hour to get all five addresses via ping. This may be because of the TTL (Time To Live) setting for that URL on my DNS server. It is very likely that the Name Server at Yahoo progresses through the IP address it sends with each inquiry in order to spread the load as evenly as possible across those five POP servers.
A better method to determine the IP address can be found in the nslookup command. Run nslookup from the command prompt. Once nslookup is running, do NOT use the SET command to change the response type…use the default. Enter the POP server name inbound.att.net. Nslookup will return all the IP addresses associated with that server name. The associated addresses are:
98.138.122.37
216.155.194.54
74.6.106.29
74.6.137.75
74.6.106.14.
(These addresses are the same as the five IP addresses returned by the website ipaddress.com when you enter inbound.att.net in the search box at the top of the webpage. Ping will eventually return all five of these IP addresses, but it will take a while to get them all.)
When I used the ping command as requested by rusticdog, ping returned the IP address 74.6.106.14. When I entered that IP address into MailWasher, everything worked fine. In fact, I could have entered four of those IP addresses into MailWasher and they would all have worked fine, with no problems.
However, if ping had returned, and I had entered, the IP address 74.6.137.75, MailWasher would have choked. The sever at that IP address responds to pings, but it does no longer respond to mail requests. That is true whether you make the request on port POP ports 110 or 995. It fails every time. It won’t even pass the initial check that MailWasher does when you enter it as the POP3 server address for the account.
Because of that bad server, there is a one-in five chance that a lookup will return the IP address 74.6.137.75. When it does, and that address is used, the connection will fail. If you retry with the same IP address, it will fail again. That server (74.6.137.75) fails every time!
The point is that you may want to study this a bit for your next version of MailWasher. It may be wise to setup a table (and refresh it periodically) of IP addresses for each mail server (POP or IMAP). If you have a mail server that has multiple IP addresses associated with it and have a connection failure, try again with another IP address from that table. Also, if possible in your log files, show the IP address used as well as the Server URL.
This is of course up to you at Firetrust to determine if the above suggestions would be a good idea. I hope that you do implement them, at least in MWP8.
Take care…and thanks for pointing me in the right direction Rustic!!
Dennis
NOTE: The URLs pop.mail.yahoo.com and inbound.att.net have the same five IP addresses associated with them. The URLs plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com and legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com have only four IP addresses associated with them. It is the same group as the others (pop.mail... and inbound...) MINUS the bad IP address 74.6.137.75. That is why my Yahoo Plus mail server never caused any problems. I changed my ATT accounts to use either plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com or legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com instead of inbound.att.net...and it works fine now.
If Firetrust is going to commit programmer time to this problem, then that programmer should be aware of the whole picture on this problem. I have determined exactly what the problem is, and that problem is with one of several POP Mail servers at Yahoo. It is one of those weird problems (to me anyway) that you run across every so often, and it may affect the way that you want to write your software. Please pass the following on to the programmer.
First, a quick background on the problem:
Several months ago, I began seeing consistent, but intermittent, failures when MailWasher attempts to connect to the POP server for my ATT.net mail accounts. MailWasher would notify me, after a short timeout, that it failed to Login to the POP3 server.
My service provider, ATT U-verse, has a contract with Yahoo to provide mail service for their customers. The POP server that I was using is pop.mail.yahoo.com. I also have my own individual ‘Plus Mail’ account with Yahoo, which has never given me any problems. The POP server for that account is plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com. The problem was only occurring with the ATT accounts, and not with my Yahoo plus account. I checked the troubleshooting pages on the ATT web site, and found that they had a new POP server URL for their accounts. I changed the server name in MWP and Outlook to the new names (inbound.att.net), and found that the problem was unaffected by the change in server names.
I was using MWP 4.1.9 when the problem began, so I (finally) upgraded to MWP 7.11.0 in the hope that the upgrade would help. Unfortunately, the problem continued, even after the upgrade. I then noticed that whatever the problem was, it seemed to also be affecting Outlook 2016. However, Outlook did not fail, it only took longer (intermittently) to download mail from my ATT accounts. I suspected that there might be some kind of POP server problem that was causing a delay in responding.
I cannot find a Server Timeout setting in MWP, but I know where it is in Outlook. For decades, I have set the server Timeout for 2 minutes when I setup Outlook accounts. It just seemed like a nice round number to me. That was longer than the delay that I was seeing in the MWP event Log between the ‘Check Mail’ request and the WMP 'Fail to Login’. I assumed that the problem was that MailWasher was simply related to server timeouts, and nothing more.
That is when I posted the initial message to this topic asking if there was a way to change the server timeout in MailWasher.
Rusticdog, provided me with the method to change the server timeouts in the Setting.xml file in the MailWasher User Data. Unfortunately, after I changed the POP3 server delay from 30 seconds to 120 seconds, there was no difference whatsoever in the errors that I was getting from MailWasher. I should have at least seen a change in the amount of time between the 'Check Mail’ request and the ‘Login Fail’. The changes to the timeout that I entered into the Setting.xml file had no effect on MailWasher.
Rusticdog then asked me to Ping the server and to use the IP address provided by that ping. I did, and I entered the IP address returned by the ping as the incoming POP3 server address for my ATT accounts in MailWasher. This surprised both of us, but it did work. What I have found since then may be important to you.
It turns out that there was only a 20% chance that the IP address returned by PING would cause the failure. This is because there are five different IP addresses associated with the POP server inbound.att.net. Each IP address is assigned to a different server, and all five servers share the load for that POP server address. Ping only returns one resolved IP address at a time for inbound.att.net. If you wait a few minutes and try another ping, you may find that it returns a new IP address. There are five different IP addresses returned (at different times) by ping. It took me a half an hour to get all five addresses via ping. This may be because of the TTL (Time To Live) setting for that URL on my DNS server. It is very likely that the Name Server at Yahoo progresses through the IP address it sends with each inquiry in order to spread the load as evenly as possible across those five POP servers.
A better method to determine the IP address can be found in the nslookup command. Run nslookup from the command prompt. Once nslookup is running, do NOT use the SET command to change the response type…use the default. Enter the POP server name inbound.att.net. Nslookup will return all the IP addresses associated with that server name. The associated addresses are:
98.138.122.37
216.155.194.54
74.6.106.29
74.6.137.75
74.6.106.14.
(These addresses are the same as the five IP addresses returned by the website ipaddress.com when you enter inbound.att.net in the search box at the top of the webpage. Ping will eventually return all five of these IP addresses, but it will take a while to get them all.)
When I used the ping command as requested by rusticdog, ping returned the IP address 74.6.106.14. When I entered that IP address into MailWasher, everything worked fine. In fact, I could have entered four of those IP addresses into MailWasher and they would all have worked fine, with no problems.
However, if ping had returned, and I had entered, the IP address 74.6.137.75, MailWasher would have choked. The sever at that IP address responds to pings, but it does no longer respond to mail requests. That is true whether you make the request on port POP ports 110 or 995. It fails every time. It won’t even pass the initial check that MailWasher does when you enter it as the POP3 server address for the account.
Because of that bad server, there is a one-in five chance that a lookup will return the IP address 74.6.137.75. When it does, and that address is used, the connection will fail. If you retry with the same IP address, it will fail again. That server (74.6.137.75) fails every time!
The point is that you may want to study this a bit for your next version of MailWasher. It may be wise to setup a table (and refresh it periodically) of IP addresses for each mail server (POP or IMAP). If you have a mail server that has multiple IP addresses associated with it and have a connection failure, try again with another IP address from that table. Also, if possible in your log files, show the IP address used as well as the Server URL.
This is of course up to you at Firetrust to determine if the above suggestions would be a good idea. I hope that you do implement them, at least in MWP8.
Take care…and thanks for pointing me in the right direction Rustic!!
Dennis
NOTE: The URLs pop.mail.yahoo.com and inbound.att.net have the same five IP addresses associated with them. The URLs plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com and legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com have only four IP addresses associated with them. It is the same group as the others (pop.mail... and inbound...) MINUS the bad IP address 74.6.137.75. That is why my Yahoo Plus mail server never caused any problems. I changed my ATT accounts to use either plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com or legacy.pop.mail.yahoo.com instead of inbound.att.net...and it works fine now.