Everything We Wanted?

[nobodyspecial]

Perhaps I am thick, but I took the line "lifetime free upgrades and support" to mean just that - but in relation to the old version of Mail Washer Pro (ie not the new 2010 version, which just happens to bear the same name as the old)

Firetrust have fulfilled that promise and I thank them.

[rusticdog]

Perhaps I am thick, but I took the line "lifetime free upgrades and support" to mean just that - but in relation to the old version of Mail Washer Pro (ie not the new 2010 version, which just happens to bear the same name as the old)

Firetrust have fulfilled that promise and I thank them.

We're also in the process of making the old version much more accessible, so users will get a very clear option on the download page on which version they want.

[anniebrion]

@Eno

V6 and earlier were called "Mailwasher Pro", the new application is called "Mailwasher Pro 2010", note the subtle difference. I have said before that they should have change the name to something like "Mailwasher Extreme" so that the new application was easily identified as different from Pro.

[Eno]

Has Firetrust taken independandant legal advice concerning this point about this contract that seems to now been broken to so many

Any legal advice Firetrust takes would be private between Firetrust Limited and the legal service they employ.

You still have a lifetime license for the software you purchased. This new software isn't covered by that agreement, in the License Agreement (if you want to get technical) you also agreed that Firetrust can make changes at any time

Amendments to this agreement

Firetrust may amend this agreement at any time by advising you by email or by posting the amended agreement on the http://www.firetrust.com website. Your continued use of the Service will be deemed to be acceptance of the amended agreement.

Thanks for your reply, If the last paragraph is correct Then I will accept as written

[mcullet]

I'm certainly not happy about this. I've been using MailWasher since the early days, before there was a Pro version (I have version 1.3 in an old backup). I gladly paid the $39.00 for the Pro version, secure in the knowledge that it was a one time fee................ Nick told us it was for lifetime.
==========================================================================================================================================

http://www.dnforum.com/f77/mailwasher-2 ... 23283.html

03-14-2003 10:48 PM

Mailwasher is going paid

Hello,

It's Nick Bolton from MailWasher.net here updating you on exciting changes to MailWasher anti-spam software.

Contents

Announcement: MailWasher Pro
New: Benign e-mail neutralizer
Coming soon: CFS global message database
New: Affiliate/Reseller program


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Announcement: MailWasher Pro

I've wanted to enhance MailWasher's position as a serious spam fighter in the market, so I've been working on a PRO version of MailWasher which is now complete and being sold from a newly branded web site.

http://www.firetrust.com

But I haven't forgotten about you! To, all my loyal users who chose to support me with donations, referrals and suggestions to get MailWasher to where it is now, I thank you! As initially promised you will still get lifetime free upgrades and support. You will also get a free copy of MailWasher Pro! This new version has a better and more easier to use interface and ALL new development will be concentrated on this version. I'm sure you will like it. You can read about MailWasher Pro here:

http://www.firetrust.com/products/mailwasherpro/

To get your free version, head to http://www.firetrust.com/mwupgrade/ for instructions. The old free version is still available from http://www.mailwasher.net but will not be developed further and is limited in various ways.
===========================================================================================================================================


Firetrust told us is was a lifetime upgrade guarantee!.....
===========================================================================================================================================
http://old.firetrust.com/products/mailw ... washer-pro

Download MailWasher Pro now and receive a fully functional trial version to use for up to 30 days - FREE.

After this you can buy your copy of MailWasher Pro absolutely risk free as MailWasher Pro comes with a 6 month money back and lifetime upgrade guarantee!

Buy Now for only $39.95 (USD)
==========================================================================================================================================

So a guarantee from Firetrust means what exactly?
I like the new version, and would be willing to cough up another $10, if the situation had been explained, instead of being informed I will pay, or I will not be able to use the new version.
$10 a year to keep the new version working means I'm just renting the program. Just doesn't sit well with me.
Firetrust, has lost my TRUST.[(my highlight)/quote]
and

You have obviously gotten more than you moneys worth in free upgrades and support with the prior version. MWP2010 is a new product from the ground up. If you read your software licenses carefully you will find that you don't own any of the programs but just have the legal "right to use".

Whether I've gotten my moneys worth or not is beside the point. The fact that MWP2010 is new is also irrelevant. It's still MailWasher Pro, and a guarantee of lifetime upgrades is supposed to mean something. Had I purchased the app from the government, I wouldn't be surprised by a guarantee that means nothing, but I didn't buy from the government.
I understand that I never really own a program, but that doesn't make your argument any less specious. We were guaranteed upgrades for life. The fact that MWP2010 is a major upgrade, doesn't change the fact that Firetrust's guarantee obviously means nothing.

and

But I was told I had a "lifetime licence for Mailwasher Pro"
so version numbers should not matter or come into it. To me a lifetime licence for Mailwasher Pro means just that
"A Lifetime licence for Mailwasher Pro"

You did and still do for the product that you licensed e.g. V6.x

This is not a version number change e.g. to V7 but an entirely "new" product (MWP 2010)from the ground up. FT then established a "new" pricing plan and licensing policy for the "new" product. Not unlike other vendors when they create a new product offering.

As I understood Mailwasher Pro is Mailwasher pro and as the lifetime licence was for mailwasher pro and future updates that is what I should get (no mention about V6 - etc).
In effect firetrust gave a contract to me for this.

Has Firetrust taken independandant legal advice concerning this point about this contract that seems to now been broken to so many :

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ..... hahahahahahahahahahah .... hahahahahahahahahah!

Great posts - RD we really do need a pool room.

There are just far too many brilliant individual comments that I cannot possibly do justice to them all - but let's see?

I prefer to deal in facts, evidence and reality and not puffed up, ill informed, inaccurate comments. So let's look at the evidence.

@ ou812 - thanks heaps (sincerely) for providing that old message from Nick. It was about 7 years ago. Your use (and mine - and others) prior to that time, was of a free product with support provided by an enthusiast called Nick Bolton. Honestly I can't remember something so irrelevant from 7 years ago but think I paid for a MWP licence then. For arguments sake let's assume you, me and others paid immediately. (Not everyone did pay anything then and many have never paid a cent.) Assuming you paid for the licence then, then we had 7 years worth of updates and bug fixes and support for a grand total of $40 or $40 / 356 (days per year) / 7 (years) = $0.016 per day. I find nothing anywhere in the industry that comes within a galaxy of this low cost / excellent service ration - $0.016 per day! That's a bloody amazing achievement - as in actually done (not pretendies).

Clearly we now have proof of Firetrust's obvious evil intentions towards global domination and enslavement of all humanity. It's ok, I'll give you plenty of time to think about what you wrote - you gave me a great laugh so it's the least I can do.

@ Ou812 - on what planet do you live? "Whether I've gotten my moneys worth or not is beside the point. The fact that MWP2010 is new is also irrelevant." (You go dude - never let reality get in the way of a good rant!) MWP2010 is technically a new product - not a minor version upgrade. When you rewrite something in a completely different language using different anti-spam techniques then that allow it to be defined as a new product. It could have been called SPAM-GO (whatever) and Nick could have charged a fair market price for the product and everything that went into it's development. Hey - you can call Newton's Laws irrelevant as you fall without a parachute but somehow, I doubt it will make much difference to the outcome.

To all who talk about 'lifetime guarantees' please place the comment within proper context - software. We are not talking about toasters or vacuum cleaners. Now - since your posts PROVE Firetust has fully met it's promises and more over 7 years during which operating systems have moved substantially (WIN 95, ME, XP, VISTA, WIN 7 etc) as have all other programs, drivers and devices ... what the heck are you still arguing about? (Don't answer - rhetorical question)

During the last 7 years magic fairies did all the work, paid for website development and running costs, support etc for $0.016 per day. Show me anywhere (it needs to be a real example) this has happened in the IT industry and I might remove one of the 'haha's from my post.

"Defending the absence of advice regarding the annual fee" - well, shite happens. Folks, "Move on - deal with it". I suspect it was an oversight - not unusual or mysterious - these happen in all forms of communication all the time. But place the oversight into perspective: $0.03 / day. I can easily imagine that after all of the effort that went into developing the new product, people were really excited and thrilled (as happens when you end a big project) about sharing the good news that the cost issue might have slipped off the table - but really, it's not significant and not by any measure a sign of a bad company. It's a minor oversight by excited, tired people who did a tremendous job on our behalf - focus on the good rather than ignore it and focus on the real cost rather than puff it up into something of Godzilla proportions.

"To me a lifetime licence for Mailwasher Pro means just that - "A Lifetime licence for Mailwasher Pro" And your point is ....? If you paid for the licence has anyone at Firetrust terminated your use of it, or failed in any way to meet the spirit of the agreement? Nope.

Too many other gems - but I do love the one regarding getting legal advice and contract law. Talking about pissing in a pot.

Happily, I do have some knowledge about contract law (nope - not a lawyer but a law student) and am perfectly happy to cite several Australian High Court cases on point - the problem though is that I would need to speak about a subject that from the outset is clearly beyond those who posit it as an argument. (BTW - NZ is clearly a different legal jurisdiction and Aussie High Court rulings are not considered to be compelling - but such cases are considered to be highly persuasive between all similarly based legal systems. Feel free to look this up.) You cannot enforce any contract containing clauses that are deemed oppressive or exploitative. (And BTW - Firetrust clearly HAS met it's obligations as has been demonstrated so we are talking in general terms not about Firetrust.) I don't know of anything that costs me $0.03 per day to use. But walk through the argument further. If Firetrust cannot afford to continue operating - no company can operate at a loss forever - then how would you propose to enforce your nonsensical interpretation of the EULA (end user licence agreement)?

I will keep repeating this - if you cannot afford $0.03 / day to use the new product called MWP2010 then you don't need it because you cannot afford to use the internet either.

MWP 6.x is so different to MWP2010 that it will prove impossible to simultaneously maintain two quite different products given one income stream - MWP2010. At some time, bug fixes and maintenance will stop - it's inevitable if no-one pays for the cost of doing this. So feel free to continue to use the lifetime guarentee MWP 6.x but don't expect to receive anything more than what you paid for - as in: service (wait at the end of a queue), bug fixes and updates to match what you paid (as in zip). Forums support? I can only speak for myself - I'll have a long hard look before writing a single word to a MWP 6.x user and it would need to be an exceptionally interesting issue (or involve something really interesting to me) before I bother to offer any help. Others might have a different take.

But - I'll help any MWP2010 user any time about anything within my abilities / skills.

Repeating my previous comments, I am very keen to hear any of you folks argue why users who are willing to pay for the new product should carry you? Think carefully.

So - please explain: why should MWP2010 paying customers carry (subsidize) those who are too lousy to shell out $0.03 / day? I'm waiting with great anticipation for a cogent response.

[Eno]

A lot posting about others postings fail to understand reasoning.

Has Firetrust taken independandant legal advice concerning this point about this contract that seems to now been broken to so many

Any legal advice Firetrust takes would be private between Firetrust Limited and the legal service they employ.

You still have a lifetime license for the software you purchased. This new software isn't covered by that agreement, in the License Agreement (if you want to get technical) you also agreed that Firetrust can make changes at any time

Amendments to this agreement

Firetrust may amend this agreement at any time by advising you by email or by posting the amended agreement on the http://www.firetrust.com website. Your continued use of the Service will be deemed to be acceptance of the amended agreement.

Thanks for your reply, If the last paragraph is correct Then I will accept as written

[mcullet]

A lot posting about others postings fail to understand reasoning.

That's OK Eno - no problems. I understand your post and thank you for your honesty. As for me - I've decided to keep out of all future discussions that are not related to technical problems. I really don't want to upset people nor do I imagine anyone goes out of their way to upset me. Sometimes people have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Peace

[TronixA923]

<removed some nonsense : rusticdog>

It's really too bad that Nick had to sell his product to a company who shows nothing but disdain for their customer base. I had bought other Firetrust products in the past, but the patronizing and cavalier attitude here does nothing in the way of making me want to pay for any more of their products. For all the non-beta tester folks, I think that this has also left a rotten taste in their mouth to see how complaints are handled. Certainly the whole license thing is beating a dead horse, but the manner in which the support folks talk down to people who complain makes it hard to bite my tongue on the matter.

[rusticdog]

It's really too bad that Nick had to sell his product to a company who shows nothing but disdain for their customer base. I had bought other Firetrust products in the past, but the patronizing and cavalier attitude here does nothing in the way of making me want to pay for any more of their products.

For the record, Nick still runs the company, makes all the decisions....

But again, this discussion is going nowhere. Locking...